CLM kicked off its 2025 Annual Conference with an insightful Q&A session in which this year’s CLM Magazine Phenoms Under 40 asked questions to CLM Lifetime Achievement Award honorees, including Caryn Siebert, vice president, national director, carrier engagement, Gallagher Bassett; Stephen Hunckler, chief claims officer, State Compensation Insurance Fund; Vic Marmo, consultant, Suite 200 Solutions; Larry Beemer, advisor, Suite 200 Solutions; and Julie Fortune, retired.
Angela Cabado, Marriott Vacations Worldwide: What would you say is something that has remained a constant throughout your career that we can keep in mind to anchor us despite what could be thrown our way?
Marmo: I think the important thing here that I remind myself all the time [is] the work we do, whether we're on the defense side or the claims professional side, is important work. …I've done this for 40 years. And do I feel like I've changed some lives? I absolutely have. And you all have in this room. You’ve changed lives. We get people at the worst times of their lives, and they're looking for solutions. They're looking for help. They're devastated. And they don't know where their next paycheck's coming from. They don't know how to pay their bills. They don't know where they're going to live next. And we have the formula to go in and say, “We can help.” And there's great gratification when you can go in and help somebody.
[To answer] the second part of the question, just remember, whatever happens, nothing lasts forever. So, if you have a bad loss, or they keep changing policies on you, I hate to say it, but you can wait out a lot of this stuff because it goes away—because it all comes in cycles. And so, when they're downsizing, they're bringing in new technology, it all goes in cycles. So, if you wait it out and don’t get frustrated, you’ll be good.
Catherine Deter, Wood Smith Henning & Berman: You are well known for inspiring and being a champion for women’s empowerment in the claims industry. What do you see as the future of women in the CLM community and our industry?
Siebert: I would say look around this room. If we wanted to, we could say, “Can we have all the women stand up?” And I bet you more than 50% of the people here are women. And that was a lot different many years ago when [Fortune] and I were first coming up to the industry. And I think it's a really bright future here in CLM and in the industry overall. I think that more and more women are learning that there's more power in lifting each other up and mentoring one another, learning from each other, learning from the mistakes that we may have made in the past, and realizing that we can be—in my case, caregiver to my mom; in other cases, raising children, raising a family, being a good partner—whatever that might mean for yourself and for others. And you can do everything that you set out to achieve while still having fun and a great career. Because we don't just have jobs in this industry—it's a career. And as [Marmo] said, it's something that we're passionate about. We're changing other people's lives.
And for our claim professionals, they may have 125 files on their desk. But to that one person with whom they're dealing, they are the most important person at that point in time. And especially for women who are compassionate and empathetic with what's happening, I think we can get some great resolutions.
Caitlin McPhillips, Berkley Construction Solutions: What do you think the single most important quality is for effective leadership?
Hunckler: The ability to be self-aware; to know how you come across. Because what you're doing is you're looking to create followership. You're looking to get people to do what needs to be done, to do the right things; to be innovative. And that doesn't happen naturally. It's something that you have to lead people to and lead them through, because change doesn't come easy all the time. But if you're aware of how you come across and how you communicate and how people need to be communicated with, you stand a much better chance to be successful, in my opinion, as a leader.
Marmo: The greatest leaders I’ve seen know how to listen. Too many of us want to talk. We want to talk before we hear what the person has to say. We already have what we want to say coming back at them. The ones who I really look up to listen before they speak—and when they speak, people listen.
Siebert: Transparency, I think, is really important as well. Whether it’s good news or sometimes it’s bad news. Whether we’re dealing with outside counsel or dealing with one another, or when we’re preparing for a large loss review—just be transparent, explain what’s happening and what your path forward will be, and when you have a plan, get some buy-in along the way—and if things don’t go according to plan, at least you were proactive in trying to work it through, because that’s another sign of a good leader. Hold yourself and your teams accountable.
Beemer: I really believe you have to turn the pyramid upside down. People don’t work for you as a leader, you work for them. And if you help them do better and teach them, and they do a good job, it’s really simple: You look good as a leader. And yet, this concept of, “I’ve got to cover my butt,” that’s 1980s stuff. That doesn’t work. I’ve heard people say that. Please don’t do that as a leader. Be strong enough with your ego that you don’t have to have people do that. Work for them, help them to become better. If you do that, your organization becomes better.
Fortune: Ownership. Own it all. Own the victories; own the defeats. With ownership, your teams and the people you work with will understand that you are totally invested in the process.
Christa Johnson, Gallagher Bassett: What were some of the biggest challenges you’ve faced in your career, and how did you overcome them?
Fortune: Early on in my career, one of the biggest challenges was that the leaders didn’t come to me first to do a job or to get promoted. Back in the ‘70s, ‘80s, I could have run it in and not faced it, I could have done whatever somebody told me to do. But instead, what I figured out quickly was that if I worked hard—which everyone in this room does, but if I took on jobs and challenges that no one else wanted to do, I could prove that I had the skills and the capability to continue my advancement. Today, I think we’ve made a lot of progress in terms of giving people opportunities that may not have had them in years past, but it’s still there—some of us still get overlooked for whatever reason. They have to figure out a way to keep themselves moving forward. Don’t let somebody else’s fears impair your ability to continue taking on more responsibilities and prove that you have the skills, aptitude, and, ultimately, the expertise to reach results.
Alexandra Santo, Golden Bear Insurance Company: What emerging trends should professionals in the insurance field be aware of?
Beemer: Well, again, it kind of goes back to what I was talking about before: training yourself. When I grew up, so to speak, back in the Pleistocene Age, I started out two days out of college and went into a training program in Aetna, and eventually went through six months of training, which included eight weeks of learning policies and getting tested on them. And if you didn't get a 90%, the general manager in your office said, “Just don't come back to work.” And so, I think, for young professionals, that kind of foundational training is not out there, and I think that puts an onus on you to do that yourself.
Siebert: I think one of the things about AI is that, for those of us who are embracing it and using it the right way, it will make you more effective and efficient with your responsibilities; with your job. The amount of data that we're all walking around with in our pockets on our iPhones is just amazing. And now that we're sharing data more, we can get to the better outcomes.
We've always talked about how the plaintiffs’ attorneys have been together in rooms just like this, talking to each other about how they can rack up $60 million verdicts, and I think one of the trends that we need to be doing is the same, in terms of comparing information and getting to those better outcomes.
Marmo: If you're looking at emerging trends, just read the newspaper. I mean, seriously, what's going on in this world are the emerging trends of what we're going to deal with as claims professionals and law professionals. We’re going to deal with forest fires and mudslides and chemical exposures and Legionella. Just look at the news because [those] are your emerging trends.
Hunckler: We still have a people shortage. And I don't care how much AI you throw at it—it's going to make us more efficient, it's going to make us do an even better job—but at the end of the day, people are people. And we have to have good interpersonal skills. And we have to recruit. We have to train.
Fortune: Now that I’m on the business side of the house, I am dealing with claims people. And now I’m seeing it from a different point of view—it is so important that you have your people skills down. Come prepared and don’t try and fake it. I’ve seen too many claims people trying to fake it to get through the conversation. And that may work with some business owners, but you never know who's going to be behind that telephone. If you're talking to someone with 40 years of claims and legal experience, you better not be faking it. But I would suggest you shouldn’t do that anyway. Get yourself prepared.